Sounds like you adjusted just fine.
Remember not to short your party treasure bundles becasue 4e kinda depends on everyone getting a certain amount of treasure.
If a group misses treasure for a good reason, not desecrating tombs, you can give it to them as a reward for saving a kidnapped victim, "it was my father's, he would want you to have it" kinda thing.

My players have not yet made it into Rivenroar Castle. but I plan on telling them that they struck a deal with Modra and Sharshan, to take control of Rivenroar castle for themselves. Obviously, they were played, but I can let the players know that in pieces as we move forward. I also added the Goblin Ally Theme from the DMG2, as well as giving Sinruth the Tiamat's Red Hand Theme. Keep 'em guessing...

I did my revamp a little differently than above, but drawing on many of the suggestions presented here. My R@R dungeon had the monsters rearranged so that the goblins/hobgoblins and their help (some rats and drakes) were the first floor, with Sinruth and his personal guard at the start of the 2nd floor, and mostly undead after that. The Deathlock Wight was the former Baroness of Rivenroar. Sinruth saw that the Baroness could animate the dead (her Decrepit Skeletons) and didn't realize it was limited in number, or that she was cursed to remain in that area of the catacombs. She convinced him to provide her with fresh victims; he expected her to provide him a contingent of undead soldiers to add to his own forces in return.

This meant the mix of monsters wasn't as varied, since it was goblins/hobgoblins for several encounters before undead for several encounters, but provided a better suspense of disbelief and also allowed them to divide up the dungeon crawl into two sections, with a sort of "miniboss" at the end of each. They still needed to finish the catacombs and destroy the undead, because they needed to retrieve the stolen artifacts, many of which had been gifted to the undead by Sinruth. It also allows for easier extended resting, since the undead are unable to leave their posts. (Whereas I'd have to move around the hobgoblins if they stopped to rest, as Sinruth 're-organized his defences'.)

I took a somewhat different approach, and pretty much ran the module straight up. What I did is I came up with reasons for everybody to be there. The undead and the traps were set up by an adventuring group consisting of several Rivenroar family members plus a conjurer and a dwarf. The place was made tough enough that anyone who'd want the guardian's magic weapons would be too weak to take them, anyone strong enough wouldn't want them anyway. A few generations of family members were buried there. <br><br> Along comes the RHOD wannabes who need a base and more cash to equip more recruits. They're not strong enough to deal with the magical defenses but can handle the more physical threats. They hook up with some Gnome Vecnaites who want to study the place and break down its magical resources into Residium. The gnomes are good with the various traps but let the Hobgoblins do the heavy lifting with the other guardians. Both groups negotiate with the Wight, as that area is one of the more dangerous and the RHOD faction wants undead ala-Ghostlord but is trying to do it with diplomacy rather than blackmail. The Wight goes along with the attempts to raise an undead army and cooperating with the Gnomes in exchange for them weakening the bonds that imprison him there in the same rituals they're using to break down the other traps.

Because of all this, the dungeon is pre-looted. This means the heros don't have to desecrate tombs to get the treasures. The magic items are split half into hobgoblin factions, half into gnome factions with one or two items still in the hands of the Wight and its skeletal servitor (and possibly the bound demon next door). The RHOD types just really have equipment as treasure, as they spent all the cash from their cut on recruiting. The gnomes have random stuff looted, plus small amounts of residium. Each is in the process of doing rituals that weaken traps. Eg the displacer beasts might have been nastier than just glowing statues, the door trap might have reset a lot more often than once a day etc. The process to weaken the traps and extract residium requires a live person nearby, which is why the gnomes are guarding most of the prisoners. This is also why the gnomes know how to operate all the traps (eg, releasing demon or elementals). The gnomes also had all the healing potions.

This approach can mean some fights are a touch harder because the bad guys are using the magic items that the PC's will eventually claim. If heal potions get drunk, be sure to provide more later.
Oh yeah, the Ettercaps. The original RHOD had a "big tent" policy where they had all sorts of one-of weird critters working with them (Chimera, manticores, etc). One of the magic items I provided was a Gem of Colloquy which allowed the webspinner ettercap to speak goblin. That explains how the Ettercaps could be guarding a major intersection and a prisoner, ie how they are working closely with the RHOD faction when they have no actual language normally.

I also kidnapped an additional four people and had them transformed into zombies/ghouls during the time the party took to get to areas 16-19. The reason the kid is staked out without a guard is he's the next banana in line to become a slavering undead. Time it so the PC's realize they didn't save him by much (previously freed prisoners can provide time estimates on how often people were grabbed and never came back, to estimate how long this process takes per critter), and he can be taking on some ghoulish aspects before they bust him out for extra fun.

The gnomes and goblins don't cooperate very well, although wiping out one faction will be eventually noticed by the other and they'll adjust their actions accordingly. The effort on the rituals to render traps into residium will probably stop, the effort to make more undead will probably be stepped up and the RHOD types might start running patrols or forting up or even try to organize some kind of evacuation in response to a strong raid.

About to run Rivenroar, but making a few adjustments for dungeon continuity:

(1) Replacing Gnome in the glyph room and statue room with Goblin Sharpshooter.
(2) Replacing Gnomes in the statue room with Goblin Sharpshooters.
(3) Replacing magma claw encounter with 2 Deathjump Spiders and a Bugbear Strangler. I thought the summoning trap was kind of silly. The spiders are allied with the ettercaps in the next room, and the bugbear is the only goblinoid big enough to not be afraid of passing through the ettercap room on a regular basis.
(4) Replacing Gnome Arcanist with 6 Giant Rats. I'm a bit on the fence about this one (since 6 giant rats seems pretty dull compared to the arcanist), but I wanted to purge the dungeon of all gnomes. I'm considering replacing the arcanist with 2 rat swarms, which would definitely increase the difficulty of this encounter.
(5) Replacing Goblin Hexer with Hobgoblin Warcaster. Goblin Hexer would be totally useless in this encounter (since there are no goblins), and would only serve as free XP for the players.

Additionally, I'm assuming that all goblins and hobgoblins would be smart enough to seek help if threatened, so if the PCs don't actively block the escape of injured goblins, they will have to face troops on high alert who actively set ambushes for the PCs. However, most goblins find the ettercaps in the web room creepy enough so that they are reluctant to seek help through that room. Basically, the level 1 goblins would only alert Sinruth if the PCs wipe out most of their numbers, or if they break for an extended rest while exploring the crypts.

The hobgoblins upstairs would also naturally seek Sinruth's aid if threatened. Either the Warcaster (formerly Hexer) or one of the grunts would run to fetch him as soon as a fight broke out.

The wererats are not terribly loyal to the goblins, but if Sinruth is alerted about an invasion and has enough time to plan, he can also ask the wererats to aid him in the catacombs' defense.

The undead are not loyal to Sinruth, and would generally not participate in any organized defense effort planned by the hobgoblins. However, the ghouls are cunning enough to hide from the PCs as soon as they spot them, and wait until they are already in a fight before attacking them from behind. For example, they might wait until the PCs start fighting the Wight and Skeletons, then cut off their escape route.

Obviously, these tactical considerations might make some fights far more lethal than they would be as written. It really depends on how decisive the PCs are in their sweep of the crypts. Every time they take an extended rest, they risk allowing Sinruth to organize their defenses, and potentially set themselves up for more lethal encounters in the future.

Other tactical considerations:

The bugbear strangler starts off downstairs with Sertanian, and will investigate sounds of fighting above. He will try to sneak into the room (the door is already open) and surprise outlying PCs.

The spiders and ettercaps will aid each other if threatened.

The wererats will also help each other if threathed. If the demon room is attacked with sufficient force, one or both of the wererats will run into the chapel to summon help. If the wererats learn that the catacombs are being invaded, they release the demon early, and follow him (with the chapel wererats) until he encounters the PCs. Then they join the fight in an attempt to overwhelm the PCs.

It's also possible that the ghouls and zombies ambush the PCs while fighting the wererats.

All monsters in this dungeon (with the exception of the ettercaps) would want to capture invaders ALIVE. This means that if there is a total party kill, they PCs would all be stripped of their equipment and kept as prisoners for eventual sacrifice to their undead landlords. However, it's entirely plausible that another group of heroes (the Farstriders, for example) rescue the PCs before they meet their grisly fate.

Seriously consider modifying the ettercap encounter. I didn't mind the flavor of them being where they were - they kind of plug up access to Level 2, but the combination of stunning, immobilizing, and restraining attacks drove my party nuts (not in a good way). The encounter took close to 1:45 to complete (taking up almost half are available gaming time). Eventually, I was doing double-damage to the 'caps behind the screen to get it over with. It didn't help that both sides were rolling for crap, but between the webs on the floor and the webbing effects, they couldn't coordinate the fight well. They also didn't help themselves by not at least trying to clear the webs. I would've allowed the wizards flaming sphere to move around and sweep out the webs, but he didn't think about it.

Me recommendation would be to have the floor webs be cleared once a PC has moved through the squares successfully. Additionally, instead of making a save against immobilize for every square they enter, have them save after 3 squares if they move through the webs. That should free up the PCs movement enough that it doesn't get bogged down.

I must be missing it somewhere, but I can't see where on the map of Elsir Vale that Rivenroar would be located. Where have all of you put it in your games?

I don't recall the exact travel times/distances, but what I did to place Rivenroar was basically this: from the description of the journey/skill challenge, determine how long it should take them (day, was it?). From the DMG, determine how far the average party travels by foot in that time. Using that as a radius out from Brindol, figure where it should be. I believe I went northeast, into the hills. This does also bring up one of my other beefs with R@R, actually: if the PCs are too close to Brindol, the impetus to try to stay and press on without extended rests is diminished (though you can constantly remind them that the kidnappees will soon be food for something nasty). At the same time, a party pressing through the whole dungeon without an extended rest is going to be impossible. This module really needs considerable rework to make it plausible. My group is up to The Temple Between now, and while there's been other issues I've had to gloss over/alter in other modules, none required the incredible amount of rework this one did. The version of this that I ran would be barely recognizable to someone who'd read it.

My free advice (worth every penny!) Read ahead into the next few modules, Jim (or at least here on the Wiki to get an idea of the plot points ahead) so you know what to keep and what can be discarded, and then hack it to bits until it works for your group/campaign. The good news: the modules that follow will be better. :) (We thoroughly enjoyed the next two, in fact.)

Morning all

I need your help and or suggestions. I've been following this board for sometime so that as I get into this AP I could make use of the suggestions contained here and elsewhere.

I've firstly adapted the adventure and tried to make it more tough and more intelligent. Therefore when the party got to Rivenroar and started to do well, I had monster act more intelligently. I've noticed a couple of things that have hampered the difficulty of the dungeon as written.

Firstly two party members Paladin and Monk are very hard to hit with melee attacks. The Warlock hangs back so much its hard to get a bead on him. The other members are a rogue and cleric. Basically I have lowered HP to make it less grindy but at the same time not lowered attacks or defences and yet the party seem to both be reasonably lucky and me to have been consistently unlucky, such that they've really had little trouble getting through two thirds of the first level. They are all second level. I want to raise the stakes and wonder what monsters/traps or environmental hazards I can put in to attack their weaker points?

Basically just to say that I've changed some of the later encounters (the areas with barracks, at the far north and where the ettercaps were, together with the other area where the dire rats were) to make this more of an undead theme. The lower area is as written, at present, but with a modified Sinruth to make him a better solo and less grindy based on what was written here: http://astralsea.blogspot.com/2010/09/monster-mayhem-sinruth-redux.html.

But suggestions and improvements would be greatly appreciated, as it just seems my party are easily overcoming the dungeon.

Arbanax

For me, the players started out using some "bottleneck at door" tactics (and to this day still do when they can), but when they started facing situations where a goblin at the back would flee to the next room to summon reinforcements (causing what should have been two easy encounters to merge into one much larger, more difficult one), they were forced to use a bit more "charge the room" strategy. As a result, the first third of the module was quite difficult for them, and then when they finally got a handle on things with the goblin/hobgoblin tactics, etc, it changed over to the undead before it got too easy/bored.

Also, one other thing I have done in my game to reduce the grind in later levels is the halve the enemies hit points but double the damage dice they do. For example an attack that did 1d6 +4 now does 2d6+4. On going damage is not doubled nor is the damage modifier. I decided to try this because some battles ended up taking for ever as the enemies had a ton of HP but only did 1d6+2 damage while they had 70 hp. Later in the game, this can cause things to really, really drag on. It should be noted, however, that creatures in the Monster Manual 3 have this alteration already made to them for the most part, so doing this for MM3 creatures could really get your party killed. I ran this past the players first to see what they thought about the idea and they all agreed to try it out. After the first battle they were hooked. They loved the 'gritty' feel it gave to battles. Battles were now fast and dangerous as one good hit could deliver 20 hp to a character with 40hp. This also allowed the Leaders (we have 2) to play a much more active role in the game as their healing powers are needed in each encounter. This rule is not for everyone but I've heard of many people doing it and based on my experience, it has been something the whole group has enjoyed.

Thanks everyone for the comments, its great to have in game feedback and ideas to tweak things. I think as well, along the way I've either missed things (the Needlefang swarms's aura got missed so the party got away much lighter there than they ought to for instance) or at times I've just rolled badly.

Ryan I've tended to drop HP by 20%, the players are pretty good at telling me what they want to do and also they have some pretty good powers. I need to reread some of their stuff to make sure we're all applying it fairly. But also when they roll well and you roll badly - what can you do.

Love the idea of the pincer movements and certainly I will be looking to regroup forces, especially if they take an extended rest which they are about due now, then we can start to throw some more concerted efforts at them.

Thanks all

Ab

I'm sorry about that. My memory was bad and I did not take the time to reference the module.

The encounter I am talkign about is encounter in area 17: Honor Guard Crypt. There are 3 ghouls and 2 zombies. The ghouls are really fast and have a great climb speed so I had them skitting along the walls and ceilings for effect. These guys, however, should not have their damage doubled and their HP halved as their special attack against immobilized enemies is +10 to his and does 3d6+4 damage and stuns the player. With the zombies grabbing and holding the players, the ghouls can get in and work in tandem to bite (immobilize) a player, then the other one can use Ghoul bite on the same player to deal 3d6+4 damage and stun them. It ends up being a nasty combo that really challenged my players.

On a side note, does being grabbed make you immobilized? If so, ghouls can use ghoul bite on any character being held by a zombie to deal the nasty damage.

For those who don't like the existing Sinruth encounter, I posted an alternate Sinruth on my blog:

http://astralsea.blogspot.com/2010/09/monster-mayhem-sinruth-redux.html

Just to chip in about the Sinruth Redux. My players faced him in the room 20 (I think) where the Menhirs are. Firstly my players took forever to get into that room, I was hoping they'd bunch up but these pillars of cold spooked them plenty. When finally they did come in, (I lured them with some Hobgob Grunts in the end) they were set upon by Sinruth. But in truth they totally whiped the floor with him. I did manage (whilst he was bloodied) to get one of the players in a headlock and then when another player used a daily, swap places with his immediate interupt which took the player to unconscious. But then the Cleric used a encounter power (Life transference) brought him right back and he then used his daily to get Sinruth where it hurts.

All in all I love the way he played out, but a couple of points to note, His armour class isn't that high when faced with five characters all getting a hit (or two if they spend an action point as mine did) it can quickly chew through his HP, so I gave him Hobgoblin grunts so he didn't take all the heat.

Second with only one attack if he misses it felt like a lot of damage was being piled on him before he got to retaliate again. It felt embarrassing to have the players taught him, and he be able to do little about it because we still had three players to go before Sinruth could return the favour.

When he hit, it could be brutal, but sadly I got some bad rolls (what can you do when that happens) equally what took the paladin out was a critical hit from Sinruth (about time to). The encounter played out well, but it would have been better if he started with more attacks a standard and a minor or something or could go twice, especially when his honour was being impeached...nonetheless he was brutal when he hit and the players still respected him as a tough opponent.

Ab

I recommend that you add some minions to the Sinruth fight. My party pretty much rolled him and did not even realize this was a boss fight.

Because of the noise involved during the fight with the ghouls and zombies, I had Sinruth show up there. He came in around round 5 or 6, and I also had two gnome skulks who had repeatedly escaped the PC's before escort him. They were "renegotiating" their contract with Sinruth.

I left the odd creatures (gnomes, ettercaps, etc...) in there for a couple of reasons. The first being that Sinruth's note clearly stated that he had a knack for recruiting people to his cause even though they weren't goblinoids, and two I had some extra story elements I worked into it that made those things work better in the story.

I'm close to wrapping up Rivenroar myself and I'm moving on to Bordrin's soon. I have a question regarding Sinruth's note though. Do they ever state who the "Emissary" that sent the note to Sinruth was? I see a Dark One Emissary in the Bordrin's module, but I'm not sure if this is the same Emissary or not. I don't want to sit and read every module to try to figure this out and I'd hate to say "this guy's the emissary" and then later go "no wait it was actually this guy!"

Anybody know the answer to this?

Yes, in the "Den of Destroyer" the Shadar-Kai weaponmaster training the gnolls is carrying a note. In the note Sarshan dictates that the leader of gnolls (Fangren) shouldn't be underestimated and that he couldn't have even thought to play with that same "emissary" crap with him that got Sinruth so worked up.

My group ran this, and it generally went well. I liked the changes suggested above:
1) I substituted undead for the gnomes - it felt like the gnomes were leftovers from when 4e launched, and it gave the adventure a stronger theme
2) Sinruth as a solo was not strong enough, and I added some minions, which helped a bit - but he still seems underpowered for a level 2 party.
3) I refocused the final encounter on rescuing the boy, as also suggested above - that added some nice tension and excitement to the end.
4) But I did keep the ettercaps as written, even though they are consistent with the undead theme, they are a strong encounter - the web is tactically interesting, and they can incap players quickly

Having trouble getting the .PDFs to load in FireFox. Anyone have similar problems? Or another link?

What PDFs? Download them and open locally maybe? Update plugin?